As we’ve just been having an interesting discussion on another “very interesting thread” about what a ‘coming of age’ ritual might be, it seems a wider discussion might be interesting…
So im curious, when people work in ritual do you create your own workings, adapt existing methods, follow prescribed notions, work only intuitively, mix it all up? And if so why? What works for you, Is part of the reason because your queer or Just your style? Is it due to your gender/non gender identity or your social class? Again is it a mix of all this and more?
We all usually start from our personal ego but then what?
I’ve discovered that my approach is at odds with many, im sure we all have at some point! But has enough commonalities in that I can work with others. That’s because those I might work with are open to suggestions. However ive met many folk who will not roam from prescriptive methodologies. So the directions when called are set, they can’t be altered. The moon is female, cernunnus is male, unity in ritual is worked through a male and female balance and so on.
I don’t deny the ‘truths’ people experience but I see no reason to accept this reality as my own truth. All my workings have led a different way and as a queer they have run up against a good deal of hostility from shall we say, a mainstream straight pagan scene. This is more that inbuilt notions of duality based on gender, it’s also about a whole approach. it seems that many of the queer pagans ive met come up with the same issues i.e. creating our own distinctive queer paganism has conflicted with the orthodox. Well hello! Isn’t that always the case?
So what do we do with that?
I remember having a huge discussion about holding hands in circle? Why hold hands? Why a circle? Ok I know the arguments but what about trying it a different way? Does the circle unite or impose conformity? How happy are we to subjugate ourselves to the group? Do we even know what the intentions are of the group are, and is it acceptable to us? Have we trust? Is the linking of hands an intrusion? Don’t get me wrong I like a circle at times but it took a while to develop a feeling that one could be in circle without holding hands, by stepping out but ‘holding the space’. That all of us scattered in a field could create ‘circle’ i.e. unity just as a call for ritual over the phone can link those who want to take part. So our instinct to start all group ritual with circle can be challenged. oh and yes I know its not always done this way, there are alternatives but it’s a familiar one so people feel comfortable with it. But my feeling is that it’s not about comfort but creation.
So we’ve all had these feeling so what do we do with them? How do we work it?
I had the same discussion about the genderised deities people work with? Why is the moon given a female identity? What does that femininity mean? Isn’t really female? Does she, the moon care? Do we care? Do we need ‘her’ to be female like we need the sun to be male? Can she be he? Or other? Or is it all about personal connection and gender doesn’t come into it? Does a collective belief shape and are we happy with that? Is the moon happy with that???
So the former is less a queer issue, the latter more obviously so?
so the discussion mutates and goes on… thoughts?
So im curious, when people work in ritual do you create your own workings, adapt existing methods, follow prescribed notions, work only intuitively, mix it all up? And if so why? What works for you, Is part of the reason because your queer or Just your style? Is it due to your gender/non gender identity or your social class? Again is it a mix of all this and more?
We all usually start from our personal ego but then what?
I’ve discovered that my approach is at odds with many, im sure we all have at some point! But has enough commonalities in that I can work with others. That’s because those I might work with are open to suggestions. However ive met many folk who will not roam from prescriptive methodologies. So the directions when called are set, they can’t be altered. The moon is female, cernunnus is male, unity in ritual is worked through a male and female balance and so on.
I don’t deny the ‘truths’ people experience but I see no reason to accept this reality as my own truth. All my workings have led a different way and as a queer they have run up against a good deal of hostility from shall we say, a mainstream straight pagan scene. This is more that inbuilt notions of duality based on gender, it’s also about a whole approach. it seems that many of the queer pagans ive met come up with the same issues i.e. creating our own distinctive queer paganism has conflicted with the orthodox. Well hello! Isn’t that always the case?
So what do we do with that?
I remember having a huge discussion about holding hands in circle? Why hold hands? Why a circle? Ok I know the arguments but what about trying it a different way? Does the circle unite or impose conformity? How happy are we to subjugate ourselves to the group? Do we even know what the intentions are of the group are, and is it acceptable to us? Have we trust? Is the linking of hands an intrusion? Don’t get me wrong I like a circle at times but it took a while to develop a feeling that one could be in circle without holding hands, by stepping out but ‘holding the space’. That all of us scattered in a field could create ‘circle’ i.e. unity just as a call for ritual over the phone can link those who want to take part. So our instinct to start all group ritual with circle can be challenged. oh and yes I know its not always done this way, there are alternatives but it’s a familiar one so people feel comfortable with it. But my feeling is that it’s not about comfort but creation.
So we’ve all had these feeling so what do we do with them? How do we work it?
I had the same discussion about the genderised deities people work with? Why is the moon given a female identity? What does that femininity mean? Isn’t really female? Does she, the moon care? Do we care? Do we need ‘her’ to be female like we need the sun to be male? Can she be he? Or other? Or is it all about personal connection and gender doesn’t come into it? Does a collective belief shape and are we happy with that? Is the moon happy with that???
So the former is less a queer issue, the latter more obviously so?
so the discussion mutates and goes on… thoughts?
posted by:
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London
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Re: what is 'to challenge' the orthodox?
Sat, June 23, 2007 - 1:45 PMi appreciate your mindfulness draeyk - here are my thoughts:
i usually feel pretty stupid, during or sometimes only after, when i'm encouraged to participate in a 'ritual' that follows either a dogmatic (line by line from a book, this is how we do it) or casually artificial. there's a good reason for it: in order to feel a genuine experiencial purpose for me the expression has to come from the inside (i love you vs. love one another).
the queerness can sometimes backfire because in posing against a status quo there is a silent endorsement of status quo (doing something just because we're told not to). whereas for me the idea is a refusal of a dominating request by looking deep into the core of inner being and simply saying no: i know it this way. iow it's not about what others's parents and bibles say it is; values known already and deeply felt, not values inflicted.
so that leaves me (no surprise to the group) with an idea of ritual that is a connection of deepfeeling selves that communicate what is natural to them. the ritual is constantly unfurling, meeting, departing to that position that works for the people or person involved. a group experience for me is best for the same reason that a solo walk among trees is: the knowing celebration of life and earth.
i know that my thoughts differ from some and that my words are dense to the rest, but that is how i see it...
on a tangent: for me it is the sun that is 'female' as i associate the sun with life beginning; her fullest reflection on the moon is when our fluids rise in honor of awesome existence.
