very interesting thread

topic posted Thu, February 8, 2007 - 10:35 AM by  BCroidayn
There was a thread on the Pagan Men's Lodge tribe about rites of passage.

I felt compelled to respond to it as some of the posters were feeling some pain about never having gone through a rite of passage into adult hood, some suggested that it may be a lack off accomplishments in the others lives, I suggested that even though many people have accomplished great things, that in our beliefs that maybe the reason they need the rite at any age may be more spirtual in nature, I think that no matter what age we are that without this rite of passage we may become stimied and feel unable to move forward in our life. So even at an age that is far beyond what is considered the normal age of passage we may need to experience this rite to move ahead in our lives not on the physical worldly level, but in our spirit.

Any thoughts?

Cody
posted by:
BCroidayn
Tampa Bay Area
  • Re: very interesting thread

    Fri, February 9, 2007 - 1:06 PM
    Wow I never really thought deeply about this before. I think I spent the first 30 years of my life putting off any notion of becoming an adult! It took a series of life changing events (death of my brother; drug addiction; hiv issues) for me to make that leap. I don't really know much about "the rite of passage" to adulthood. I wish I did. It would have been nice if I could have been a little more responsible/mature by my late 20's. I paid a higher price later...
    • Re: very interesting thread

      Fri, February 9, 2007 - 4:31 PM
      well it makes sense taht as the phsical body grows and cganges so must our spiritual bodies, A rite of passage from boyhood into adult hood can be almost anything if you ask me, For me it was going to a sweat with my uncle for the first time an experiencing things in our ancestral traditions, Being part Lakota gave me that chance, but I know that there are many groups out there that explore these traditions with non native people, You may want to look into that, or ask any of your pagan friends to help you find the answers, I don't know you so I can't really say what is right or wrong for you. Sounds like you have been through alot both physically and mentally, maybe now is the time in your life to move forward spiritually as well? Put the past behind you and move forward and gain a better understanding of what it is to be gay and male and pagan all at the same time, Maybe it is something you can do on your own,? Maybe go this summer on a vision or dream quest, go out into nature with nothing more than water and the basic neccisities and meditate on this, the answers will come if you ask the questions.
      • Re: very interesting thread

        Tue, February 13, 2007 - 5:23 AM
        i know when i first became involved in this i had a hard time with it as it seemed to be draw along gender lines... girl to woman, boy to man... we tried to make it more queer and that was usefull... the rites were actually brought up by young people in our social network and i think it was important to do.

        i dont feel i need a rite of passage as much as rites of continuance... since i continue to jump through new cycles that need recognition. this is a process linked to many forms of change and i think we should deffinately honor this. i know that when i changed my name a year ago that marked a point of change... i also did this b4 15 years ago for the same reasons. for me it marks fundamental changes... my last name was about abandonment and wildness, the lastest one is about deep roots, solidity and grounding... sometime i feel that in life we go through reaction, consolidation and resolution... maybe these are cycles im responding to???
        • Re: very interesting thread

          Tue, February 13, 2007 - 7:43 AM
          I would definately agree with that, along celebrating the sabats and esbats we sometimes find that there are turning points in our lives that also need to be recognized and ritualized in some form or another, a plain old birthday party on special years to me is a gnostic way of these rites, say when you rutn 40 or whatever, The wheel where as it has the eight celebrations is only one part of a larger picture in my opinion, Events happen and are celebrated on a larger scale sometimes occuring on the scale of years decades, centuries etc.... and within our lives also there are times when we need to pass into a another personal spiritual realm to grow and become more than we are, The craft is collective and individual at the same time. For anyone to say, wait you are doing that wrong, is not right, It is right for you to do what you need to do and people should respect that and maybe even learn from you,

          I am so glad that this is such a positive tribe and one that I have so far thoroughly enjoyed belonging to, It makes me want to just get everyone together and have one giant group hug!
        • Re: very interesting thread

          Wed, March 28, 2007 - 4:32 PM
          Maybe we could have rites of rebirth? Little rituals marking our constant rebirth and renewal. I like the sound of that :)
          • Re: very interesting thread

            Wed, March 28, 2007 - 5:25 PM
            hey chris. i read about a cord-cutting ceremony in a magazine (sacred fire, issue 4) recently. not really a re-birth per se, but an opportunity to cut the cord of ancestoral habit, maybe becoming a "re-birth" in itself. the article did not go into the technicalities of the rite, but does provide some inspiration for a similar (or totally different-end-result) rite.
            • Re: very interesting thread

              Mon, April 2, 2007 - 12:50 AM
              it would beinteresting to have a collective ritual about rebirth/renewal... one where each person has their own specific renewal to recognise and honor and yet share the process... mind you thats opening us all up to some very powerfull and at the very least, varied experiences:) with a rights of passage you have a "coming of age" and this commonality strengthens the intent but with a generalised renewal anything could happen! mmm very interesting...

              cutting of cords can be very potent, also if in group you may have a collective intention that charges the cord and the cutting and keeping of said cord allows for a shared holding... beyond the initial ritual.

              i also find the cutting insanely powerfull... as indeed is the burning of a cord, running through water and so on... the cord as emblem of a linea representation we can use as a focus.
  • Re: very interesting thread

    Fri, June 1, 2007 - 12:43 PM
    interesting discussion - thanks Cody!

    my contribution tends toward the 'never growing up' mood of Lucien and with the cyclical, or seasonal, feeling of Draeyk; phrases like 'growing up' and 'going through a stage' suggests to me a ranking of being that rubs me off: the end or goal of 'adulthood' to be a cultural concept of pure artifice of the renunciate-kind. whereas a positive earthly bonding rite seems a necessary rhythmic, or seasonal, celebration of existence and each other, if sometimes silly. i guess that i'm also timid with what i perceive to be defensiveness identity posturing: people should connect with each other if they are mutually magnetic, like a stroll in the garden, we can enjoy experience of life to its end
  • Re: very interesting thread

    Tue, June 12, 2007 - 11:19 AM
    hmm very intreasting points you bring up. But I feel very differently. I think we dont need an outward ritual for something our bodies tell us. it is a great commeration and is beautiful to celbrate but def not needed to show our own growth as a pagan or wiccan. When a female becomes a woman her body tells her when she gets her first blood and a guy would probably be his first wet cum or wetdream. Our bodies know we have grown and continues. Your right in the fact that our brain may need a rite of passage to know when we have grown but its not needed for our spirit or our hearts in your heart you know when you have natured through a different stage of life awesome topic alltogether
    • Re: very interesting thread

      Thu, June 14, 2007 - 11:32 PM
      indeed we do not "need" to outwardly mark anything with an outward ritual but some do and sometimes its a need other times its a want. also its not always about me but what other beings/deities/energies/lands et cetera demand! ritual is more that just the obvious, we can do ritual and be recognising something unknown to us, marking or making ritual to represent some aspect of change is in itself part of the change and is far more subtle than 'we have come of age' notions.

      when we have done coming of age rituals it was more about young people wanting a common shared experience and responding to their need, indeed they were the ones who came and asked us. as a growing community it is very moving to have this experience when we live in a world where concepts of coming of age, whatever we take them to mean seem to be more about proving yourself as "the man" or "the woman" rather than simply recognising that one is in a cycle/flux of change (as we usually are) it does not mean we have suddenly moved on and become adults or grown up or anything as mundane as that. its a bad use of words as it clearly implies more than it is.

      the shared experience provides bonds of friendship and experience that allow for a coming together and lift-off for other questions, emotions, feelings and potentials.

      i would also say that ritual takes many forms. it may not be all standing in a circle, calling directions, journeying, alter worship, burial, making a cup of tea and other such physical manifestations. we can move within ourselves/others/states and if we call it ritual or not we are often recognising (or not - subconsious at work?) someing that is touching us.

      this is ego in part but it need not be. however ego is ever present [sic] and i think a mistake to reduce it to invisibility.
      • Re: very interesting thread

        Fri, June 15, 2007 - 12:39 AM
        That is very wise ego is a part of us that we must recognise and not try to hide its there for a reason. sadly not everyone views ritual the way you do especially coming of age ones because they see it as a sort of thing to do to be a pagan or a next step. while it is a beautiful next step in a cycle i dont feel it should be done because someone has reached a certain age and this is the next step it should be because of maturity not how long you have been alive in this incarnation. It should be through a sort of feeling that one comes to evelop a want for a symbolic and meaningful ritual to outwardly celebrate their emotional, spiritual, and religious group so I guess I wouldnt be against those who sought out their coming of age I am against those who pressure others into it because they turned a age and feel it is needed (I.E. a wiccan family performing one for a son or daughter who may not be ready but has hit the age.)
        • Re: very interesting thread

          Fri, June 15, 2007 - 11:06 AM
          yes i agree... if you wish to take part in something like a 'coming of age' ritual, you need to be ready and it should never be based, i believe on niave notions of age or indeed many other 'signs' used to decide on readyness... it should never just be a "next step" i dont wholheartly agree with coming of age rituals but they have there use. id rather mark changes as and when and my arguement is is that if one feels the age is now to mark oneself then so-be-it.

          but then there is a lot prescribe ritual practice that i dont agree with. for me its all about intuitive working so being told to do something at such and such time, in such and such way rubs me up the wrong way on so many levels...
          • Re: very interesting thread

            Mon, June 18, 2007 - 4:53 PM
            exactly the feeling.

            discussion seems basic to the character of the tribe - too bad we can't sticky.
            • Re: very interesting thread

              Mon, June 18, 2007 - 11:08 PM
              i know, seems we should as queers be using our talant to challege 'accepted' notions of pagan workings and see what we can come up with. im not sure why we dont have more fluid discussions, it maybe that queer means different things to different people but id have thought that a simple look at many pagan approaches are very heteronormative. maybe a new thread???